Outsourcing & Internet Marketing
Today I wanted to talk about outsourcing. Many readers of my blog are Alex Jeffreys Coaching Students and he mentioned about this very early on in the Coaching Program but is it something you have taken advantage of? In fact, if you look at the way Alex Jeffreys does business and you will see he doesn’t do everything himself, far from it, he outsources.
And outsourcing can be dirt cheap so virtually everyone has got no excuse to take advantage of it. But you need to shop around. I think I can best illustrate this point with a real life example. A couple of months ago when I was just getting into creating videos I created a 25 minute video tutorial. Now I needed it splitting into 3 videos so that I could upload it to YouTube (I didn’t know how to do it at the time but do now :-) ) So I posted a project up and Rentacoder at 8.30 in the morning. 1 hour and 10 minutes later and I had 12 bids before I closed the bidding prematurely.
Take a look at the shot below (click to enlarge):
The bids ranged from $10 up to $100 (average $32) – a wide margin so how do you choose which one to select. Well you can click on the providers to get more about their experience and background or look at the Rating score allocated to them based on completed projects to date. In my case I picked someone who had a rating of 9.2 (Superb) as an average over 15 completed projects for people. That was enough for me ? And the cost - just $10 !!
At the same time I also posted the project up and Elance. On that outsourcing site I got 11 bids over the course over the next day or so. The range of bids was $50 up to $250 with the average being $91. So which service is the best? Well I’ll let you decide but price is only one factor. I am sure there are other outsourcing sites as well but these are the two I have used in the past.
You can outsource absolutely anything, and I mean anything. If you have work to get done and don’t want to do it or don’t have the skill set, then why not try outsourcing? It allows you to focus on other things which are probably a better use of your time. In a way the people who used me to set up their blogs for free for them outsourced the work to me allowing them to not have to worry about the initial technical difficulties in getting started.
Last week, when I had problems with IE7 not working properly I immediately put up a project on Rentacoder. I thought if I can’t sort it I need to get an expert in. Over the course of the day I had 8 bids ranging from $5-$50, average $22. It takes a little time to setup an account and get approved but once you have done it posting projects is very easy in deed. If you haven’t already got an account then don’t wait until you need one or you have a major problem like I did to resolve. Get one set up now, it costs nothing and is ready for when you need it.
Filed under: Alex Jeffreys
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Hi Garry,
Great post mate, outsourcing is a hot topic at the moment. I was looking at the rentacoder site just the other day to get a feel of things.
Don’t need anything specific done right now but as you say it’s worth setting up an a/c so your ready.
I know a few people have had a bad experience when outsourcing on elance. So probably best to start with small cheap jobs and go from there. The ideal situation is to find someone you can build a relationship with and use them for all your needs.
All the best
Mark
Hi Mark,
I’ve used both Rentacoder and Elance in the past and never had a problem with either, though I do prefer Rentacoder.
The Rentacoder rating system is very good as for completed projects the person who posted the project rates the bidder out of 10. You can thus easily see if someone has a high rating and done a reasonable number of projects that they are likely to be good. Also, it has a very good arbitrage system so that if you are in dispute about something it is resolved fairly well.
Hey, Mark if you decide to sign up, use my link above. Costs you nothing but I may get a little out of it - Every little helps
Hi Garry,
I have never used either of these services myself but I have known about them for a long time.
Does anybody have a preference for MP3 recordings? I’m gonna ask my good buddy in Florida tomorrow what he uses coz he has a catalogue as long as your arm but would be interested if others have a preference.
Gary
Hey Garry !!
Good post brother … I am yet to outsource but I tell ya Im busting at the seams at the moment so it aint gunna be long !!
Something to point out mate, I have an account at both Rentacoder and Elance but once in the past I looked at getting something done on Elance. When I looked into things I came accross somewhere on there that stated your minimum payment for a job had to be $50 ?!?!
Did you know that ?? .. Is it the same at Rentacoder or can any price go ?? I assume it can as you paid $10 for your work
I’ll add something else into this bro, I was actually going to post about this on my blog but heck lets do it here….
Do you think outsourcing blog commenting and forum posting is a good or bad decision ?? You see I wrote a little note on what takes up all my time and the Biggie for me is both of those.
You see Im thinking that outsourcing some regular forum posting would relieve a lot of time ..**BUT** Then would you lose the personal touch of doing your own posting / commenting ???
Whats your thoughts on that one peeps ? ? ?
So Garry mate … Hows the plans for your re-design that you mentioned ??
Looking forward to seeing whats happening
Speak soon bro
Dean
Hi Garry,
Would also be interested to hear your thoughts on the point Dean raised above.
I see outsourcing mentioned alot as an alternative to forum/blog commenting. This is one of the most time consuming activities we do. But can you really trust someone else to be leaving comments in your name?
Do you know of anyone who outsources this? The benefits of outsourcing this task are obvious but I guess you need someone who really understands the market.
Mark
Hi Garry,
Great post.
You could always outsource your blog/forum comments to a relative you trust.
That’s what Alex did at the start, for some of his outsourcing tasks (not sure if he used them for posting comments though).
Laters,
Dave
P.S. Garry I’ll use your link for Rentacoder when I join - spread the wealth why not!
P.P.S. When’s the next issue of the PPP newsletter out?
Hi Garry,
Great topic and you covered it well with your own experience.
Proves that facts tell, stories sell!
Why not outsource to our classmates. Maybe if you have a specific skill, you could make some extra cash. Better yet, sign up with the same sites as a provider of a service. Just a thought to help support our classmates.
Warmly,
Theresa
@Dean,
I didnt know that about the $50 minimum of Elance. I guess that accounts for why the price in my example was so high.
Regarding outsourcing comments – I guess you mean those blogs outside of the F500 to build up your presence more. You are right it would lose a bit of the personal touch but this is the way I would proceed:-
Outsource a small controlled test, say focus on a 2 or 3 comments on each of 100 blogs/forums over the course of a week. So total 300 comments. Then monitor using Google Analytics and apply the 80/20 rule. That is, work out which blogs are driving the most traffic to your site (the top 20%). With those blogs they can then go on your ‘Personal Comment’ list which means that from that point on YOU personally visit those sites and start to comment directly thus adding the personal touch as you know those blogs are worth the effort. Dump the other 80 blogs/forums. You can then repeat the exercise the following week and outsource someone to comment on another 100 new blogs and apply the 80/20 rule to the new batch. Keep adding to your ‘Personal Comment’ list and refining it to a manageable size as you go along depending on your own time constraints.
In fact, I’m glad you raised the question as I never thought about it before, but the approach I’ve just mentioned seems a bl**dy good idea even if I say so myself, LOL.
Thanks for that Dean !
I think I may put it on my to-do list to try out
@Mark,
I don’t know of anyone who does it but would be interested to know if they do. Using the approach I mention above you could start with fairly generic type comments written by the outsourcer and then to move on to add the personal touch dependant on results.
@Dave,
Good idea about the relatives – it adds a bit more of a personal touch.
Thanks Dave for saying you’ll use my Rentacoder link when you sign up. Like I say it cost you nothing but I make a little out of it ?
I do think it is a good idea to get an account set up before you need it as well. If you need to get something done in supper quick time like I did last week with my IE7 issue then it is one less hassle and there is no wait to get your project posted. Think of Rentacoder (or Elance) as a member of your Team that you can call on when needed.
PPP Newsletter is out later this week. Putting finishing touches to it now.
HI Dean,
My opinion about having some rent-a-person writing your blog posts and comments is that it would be so damn false it would render your blog useless, along with your name.
I know it takes up a lot of time but personally I would NEVER do it. If I detected that somebody else was writing blog posts for the owner then I would never go back to that blog. They could jam it IMHO.
Gary
@Gary,
Dean isn’t suggesting someone write posts or comments on his own blog (not the way I read it anyway) that would be totally wrong. He is on about commenting on the 1000’s of blogs out there in the IM niche to build up back-links and traffic to is own blog.
My reply has gone up at exactly the same time as yours so hopefully my comment above makes Dean’s intention a bit clearer.
@Theresa,
I guess that is a possibility for some and certainly those that wanted to make a bit of money could register with Rentacoder as a provider. For me that would be an impossibility at this time unless someone invents a 36 hour day, LOL But for others I guess it is something to consider.
Thanks for that suggestion.
Hi Garry,
Maybe I misunderstood it. But this is what he said:
To me, a “post” is pretty much your own blog post. A comment is something that you (or in this case - your “proposed” army of hired femme-bots or whatever) leave on somebody else’s blog or forum.
OK. Let me make MY stance perfectly clear. If a femme-bot or a roboman-bot puts up some useless comment at my blog and I detect it then I will remove it and inform the Overlord NEVER to bother doing it again.
I wouldn’t do this SH*T to somebody else and I really hope that they wouldn’t do it to me. Though… seeing what goes on around the place from time to time, I think some people will do ANYTHING to make a quick buck.
Gary
I have to side with the Gazz-Man regarding the outsourcing of Posts and Comments ( I felt Dean was referring to both comments on other blogs as well as posts on your own blog) done in my name. Perhaps it is my need for control but if something is going to have my name attached to it I want to be sure it is representative of me.
I do feel that someone else posting in my name would loose the personal touch as well as change the tone of the blog. Instead of being my blog it would become some weird hybrid of my thoughts and what the ghost writer put forth as my thought.
Just my opinion
Ken
Hey Gary,
Just picked up your tweet about this post. Re-tweeted it for you. I have yet to use outsourcing for anything but I know it will be the way to go eventually.
It will depend on what it is for but it seems that you can get some things done fairly cheaply. As you say, there aren’t enough hours in the day. The time will come when the only way to progress will be to outsource. Some are probably already in that situation.
The point you make about having an urgent problem to resolve is a good one. It could be useful to have a rescue service for emergencies.
I agree it’s definitely worth getting your feet wet with some small jobs to start off.
The Gazzman is feisty today. I agree with him entirely even though he misunderstood. I have also been considering getting my son to make comments on my behalf on blogs outside the 500.
Cheers
Ken
** STOP ** ** STOP ** ** STOP **
Hey peeps
Let me straighten this out 100% …
NEVER .. and I do mean NEVER would I pay someone to write my own personal blog posts !!
When I said ‘posts’ above I was refering to forum posts… Sorry for the confusion but I call forum work ‘posting’ i.e - Post in a forum
The commenting refered to commenting on the blogs outside of the students i.e - New blogs that not visited before
Let me just confirm my reason for raising this…..
Now that everything is going forward I am starting to review how my working time is spent. I really dont get many hours left in a day right now lol ….So What I am saying is that to spread my name and go out doing the whole social thing takes up every spare time I get.. Yes I realise this is the important task of promotion but I actually really like the idea Garry has put forward above !!
Heck … Wouldnt you pay to know what blogs would send you traffic if you took part in them ??!! Seems to make perfect sense to me, get a hired worker to contribute in other blogs for you, analize the traffic and then personally take over those bringing good results !!
Hope that clears up my point, I wouldnt dream of ever outsourcing my own blog !! Geez Big G .. Should know a brother better man
I gets a feeling this one may divide peeps !!
Dean
Hi Garry,
Sorry to hear that so many were having trouble with IE7 and glad you’ve managed to sort it all out. My server isn’t the most reliable and IE was always crashing on me and causing weird things to happen - so I moved over to FireFox a while back. Not that thrilled with it, but it works.
All of you at Alex’s Students have been a real help and your suggestions I have taken to heart. Unfortunately I lost my password to access my blog (I tossed out a bunch of papers when I had a cleaning fit) and to my dismay realized my error too late. I tried for weeks and finally contacted you Garry, but it sent the password link to somewhere in lala land.
Thank goodness today my fiddling around managed to hit it right - only to discover that many of you had come to visit and a few of you girls also at Gary Simpsom’s request before I had made my decision! (Thank you Gary - I can’t access your site, but wanted to thank you personally - and no I don’t take offense to useful criticism)
Sorry to hear about Nigel I thought he was doing fabulous.
All the best,
Angela
Hey Garry, another great post. I have been trying to get audio on my blog for awhile and thought I could do it myself.
I finally realize that the amount of time I spent looking for plugins and trying each of them out should have been spent on my business, not the techie stuff.
Thanks for the great resource. I tried elance.com but I think rentacoder might be the way to go for this one.
And Dean, I believe social networking is important enough to write all of my posts and responses even on other sites.
I mean, what if somebody commented or emailed you about one of your comments that was hired out? I’d feel like an idiot.
Maybe articles and such about specific topics is what I would hire out to get traffic from EzineArticles or to creat an ebook.
Outsourcing has it’s place but in the beginning, I personally prefer learning a lot of it myself. When I push myself that’s when the best of me shines through.
Just a thought.
Michael J Ottman
Hi Dean,
Thanks for clearing that up.
However, I STILL would not “out-source” this activity. Posting and commenting is PERSONAL. To do otherwise is just SO false.
If you are concerned about the 80/20 rule then a quick look on the proposed blog that you are considering interacting with is all you will need to do. I check dates, activity, interaction of the blog owner - that sort of thing. I apply MY 80/20 rule BEFORE I even lay one word down.
Regarding “brothers”… Dean, we (ie you and I) have never met in person. I hope to rectify that at some stage this year - whether that be in that cess-pit called Las Vegas or even in London or anywhere else.
All I know about you is what I get to see from time to time on the blogs. I know what you mean, so please DON’T take this the wrong way (yourself - ie personally) but… SOME of the “brothers” and “sisters” do some very “un-brotherly-like” and “un-sisterly-like” things to fellow “brothers” and “sisters” at times… if you get my drift.
Gary
@Gary, @Ken D,
Yeah, reading back I can see how you could read Dean’s comment not the way he intended but he has made that very clear now. He is talking about other blogs/forums rather than his own which is the way I initially interpreted it anyway.
Gary, referring to your comment:
I think everyone would agree with you there, but a little time and effort spent constructing good comments to post wouldn’t take long and would have a positive effect. If done correctly you would have little chance in spotting them I feel. Particularly, if soon afterwards they are followed up with ‘real’ personal interaction if the blog/forum targeted had resulted in a positive outcome –ie. Traffic directed to your site.
@Ken A,
Thanks for Re-tweeting my message. Can you (anyone) explain what re-tweeting is all about? It is not something I have done and maybe should be.
I notice you say you agree with Gazza 100% but you mention you are considering getting your son to comment on blogs outside the F500. Slight contradiction there, LOL, but I agree if you are going to go down the outsourcing route getting a family member to do it would add more of a personal touch than someone you don’t know. In fact someone has commented above that our mentor Alex Jeffreys did exactly that – used family members!!
@Dean,
Thanks for popping back and clarifying your original intention. I bet you wish you hadn’t commented now, LOL.
Seriously though I think it is good to air ideas as you get valuable feedback which can help decide the best way forward. In the end, I think you are right it looks as though it is something that will “divide the peeps” as you say
But then I would say there are NO hard and fast rules in this game and your own personality will dictate what is right and wrong for you. This will differ from person to person.
@Angela,
Looks as though Microsoft have sorted the IE7 problem now so I guess you can go back to using that if you are not happy with Firefox. I personally use both.
Glad you got your access problems sorted out and found Gary’s and others comments useful to you.
@Michael,
Thanks for adding to the discussion. (Did you get my email?)
And hey, if you sign up with Rentacoder appreciate it if you do it through my link above. Like I said above, costs you nothing but I can make a little out of it
@Gary,
Yes, applying the 80/20 rule before you even consider posting on a blog/forum is essential but that should be taken a stage further regardless of if you add comments personally, outsourced or via a family member.
Alex Jeffreys has told us previously to use GA to analyse our traffic sources and apply the 80/20 rule there too. Just a reminder for those that have missed that previously.
Hi All
I have found http://odesk.com to be pretty cool and had a similiar experience to Garry.
What I like about it is that there is a process to approve YOU and it is very secure…which I like. It’s not an immediate access things as you have to confirm codes with you CC statment…but worth it in long run as you get total control….more about this on their site.
It seems to have a lot [probably the same as rentacoder etc] of candidates and there is also a way to manage them in that they have to log in to the odesk system to get paid so you know wxactly how long they have spent and you can get screen shots of where they are [if you request it]…also if you are not happy you do not have to pay [which may happen, I do not pay for cr@p].
For those who get the $1 SEO book on my site they also get a free article written by someone i found on odesk and she applies special rates on my request [as there are so many of us] to students of AJ. If anyone is interested in getting articles written for as little as 0.06 cent a word let me know and i can pass on her details.
Hope this helps!
Harry
http://harryharrisblog.com
Hi Gary,
Blog posting is not the best means of communication in the world. It is easy for confusion and misunderstandings to occur. For example, whilst writing my comment #13 (unlucky for some!) above I got a phone call and there was a delay in posting. I was responding to Gazza’s comment #9 above. I see now that there are two more comments added above mine.
I was agreeing with Gazza that your own blog posts should be written personally. I could also see that Dean wasn’t saying that he would outsource his own blog posts and comments.
As for commenting on other peoples blogs and in forums I think that it would be best to do it yourself. Well thought out constructive comments that add value are good for the blog owner and much more likely to attract traffic back to your own blog.
But, there are many bloggers who have a team of people working for them, including some in the 500. If you take this approach you need to work with people you trust and train them well. I have been thinking about getting my son to help me out. But it’s not something I would want to outsource to a stranger.
I’ve put a post about re-tweeting on my blog:
http://www.infobizo.com/re-tweeting-on-twitter.php
I hope it helps.
Ken
Hey Garry
lol, seems to have split the crew !! Like you say I think its good to air your thoughts and opinions, at the end of the day it helps us all right ?!!
Big G-man …
I see where you are coming from bro, and I hope we meet soon too !! Hows about you fly big Dean over to your sunshine paradise ?! hehe … All expenses paid sounds perfect
I see what your saying about the commenting on others and outsourcing, Im gunna give it some thought.. I do see both sides
Oh this discussions great !!
Well with that said, Im sorry my original comment caused confusion but hope you see how I now meant it !
Come check my new post, quite a biggy and your input would be good !!
Oh yeah Garry .. Just spotted your offer of personal coaching !! Boy you move quick huh !! Your own coaching program already.. Wow ! You ready for that bro ?? Dont rush things mate, I’d love to hear more on this !
Speak soon
Dean
Isn’t it unfortunate that Dean’s comment was taken so negatively.
It happens that I write all my own material over at my personal blogs, but I will hire others to write articles for my Family Business School website. Sometimes I send them my drafts to clean up.
The question of who writes what for whom is a vexing one. Whilst politicians may write their own speeches before and when first elected, ministers have teams that both research and draft material for them.
One suspects that Ronald Reagan even had them produce the final draft, and I am sure I’ve no idea who wrote Geroge Bush Jnr’s words. Goeger Bush Snr. perhaps?
If you listened to Glenn Dietzel the other night it’s pretty clear that he wasn’t advocating hours spent over a word processor to produce your New Your Times best seller.
Even successful writers are assisted by editors within their publisher’s house to iron out quirks in their style, as well as I suspect, to revome the obb typografical mastike!
In my experience, however, even when using ‘Rent a Coder’, by far my favourite on-line source for outsourcing work, you get what you pay for.
There is a retired journalist in Manilla whom I happily pay $120 for six articles because I know that I need do nothing but post them.
I consider him cheap, but don’t tell him so, because whenever I’ve tried less experienced writers I’ve frequently needed to coach them, or rewrite their work. Far better to employ people as researchers and then write your own stuff. The researcher feels they’re doing a valuable job without the pressure of having to be word-perfect.
I know nothing of programming but employ a guy, or girl, I know not which in Hanoi who can do things with Drupal that aren’t even solved on the Drupal Forums.
Dean, I think you may have got Gary wrong in his offer of coaching. Gary has been in the Motivation and Self Esteem business for years and in my view he would be a great coach for anyone who is stuck for various reasons.
It happens that I too have a caseload of counsellors and therapists in different parts of the world who come to me from time to time for help. That’s because in a ‘past life’ this was my world. I certainly don’t refuse to speak with them because I am a student of Alex Jeffreys, and so am receiving some Coaching from him.
In fact I need help from wherever I can get it, and I offer help freely too. For example recently I’ve been wondering what to do with the blog that I started as part of Alex Jeffreys’ Program.
Now the Program is winding down, and since I’ve no wish to be an Internet marketer, and joined his Course to be more proficient at marketing on-line I am wondering where to take that blog?
Did you know that I am offering a reward to anyone who helps me over my dilemma by posting a helpful suggestion over at the thread at my place?
It’s some videos about what I have been learning from being on the inside of Google Conquest. You can learn more about my offer by clicking on my name at the head of this comment and following the prompts.
What a long comment
Stephen
heh…heh… now I am laughing. This thread has gone up and down and ’round and ’round and all over the place. I think we are all very nicely confused now about who is doing what.
Gary
LOL … Think you right GaRy !!
@ Stephen Bray … I was pointing out brother that GaRRy here on this blog is going to do coaching .. Not G-man Gary
Either way .. Which ever does it I wish every success with it !!
I think I’ll shut up on here now lol, messing with my head .. Craziness peeps !
Speak soon
Dean
Correct bro’ Dean!
Hi Garry,
Quite honestly, after reading your post and all these comments, I’ve forgotten alot of what your post was about!! Just kidding.
I have used elance, but haven’t tried rent-a-coder. Guess I thought they were mainly for “programming” types of things. I’ll have to check out exactly what services they offer.
As far as outsourcing blog and forum comments, I hadn’t thought of doing that. Pretty lively debate on it, but I like your 80/20 idea.
Debbie
Hi Garry,
I have used http://www.getafreelancer.com for some of my projects, never had a problem and all have been on time..
If anyone needs there video split up for you tube or trimmed i will do it for you free.
I am offering my service for FREE to any Alex Jeffreys students, all i ask is you join my mailing list and post 1 comment on my blog.
Mark Terrell
http://www.markterrell.co.uk
ps: i can also convert your video into several different formats ie: for your ipod, iphone, walkman video, quicktime mov, mpeg4, ASF
Hi Garry,
Caught this tweet and it piqued my interest as I have been contemplating a post on it. Why just contemplating? Because I’m soooo busy wriitng, posting, commenting, answering social site messages, on and on and on. lol.
Would you be interested in helping design a poll/survey on outsourcing to be posted on my blog? In return you could blog about the results and I would post just referring folks to your post. If so, let me know and we can work out the details.
I’ll be away for a few days and will be back on Friday. I’ll be checking messages but won’t have much of a chance to respond. @hal_major
http://www.imjustsayingblog.com
Hi Garry,
I used getafreelancer also, when I was first setting up my blog. It was all totally new to me, and I didn’t know where to turn when things went wrong. Within ONE hour from placing the project on there, my blog was running perfectly and the guy answered heaps of my questions via Skype. His price was $30 including ongoing support any time I get stuck. Getafreelancer operates a little like ebay with feedback. There were cheaper quotes, but I chose the guy who had 10/10 for every job.
It’s definitely worth outsourcing.
Gaielle
Hey Gaz
Hope the weather is getting better over there, im still over in Malta until monday.
Good to see you posting about outsourcing, i was planning of doing a similar video with elance when i get back, i have used elance quite az bit before for various things, its pretty cool, never tried rentacoder, but gunna give it a shot soon for sure.
Im off now for a ferry cruise to gozo
so take care keep up good work bro!
Dan Briffa.
Hi Garry,
Thank you for the great post! I use oDesk, eLance and Rentacoder too with very good results.
It seems eLance is better for writing jobs and Rentacoder for coding and IT stuff.
I hired somebody to write a content to my company site, and I was more than impressed about the results - and ended paying 3x times more than the original estimate.
My company also provides IT/software outsourcing services, so I know it from the other side too.
BTW, if anyone wants to help with technical stuff, just let me know.
Jozef
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